It’s not often I’m moved to tears during a Church service… maybe it’s because I was going through a pretty tumultuous time of life, or because this is a particularly moving testimony, or more likely both. This is a bloke from our church sharing about his tough, but rewarding journey in life. This testimony penetrates a generation gap and shows that our faith is best placed in the Lord Jesus.
On Sunday (24 February 2013) we asked the question “Is the Bible anti-gay?” as part of our “Got Questions?” series. We opened up the Bible to let it speak for itself.
A young woman (who we won’t identify) from our church community asked if she could share her story, with the hope of encouraging others. A big ‘Thank You’ to this young woman – thank you for sharing your story.
Here it is. We hope you find it encouraging.
“I first came to Creek Road through a friend who was coming here at the time. I was a bit wary of going back to church. I had already had a bad experience at a previous church, which had been very judgemental of me.
You see, at that time, I was in a homosexual relationship with another woman, and had been for three years.
My previous church had told me that I was not welcome there unless I changed. However, Creek Road seemed different, and over the next few months I started going more and more. Often I would sit by myself on one side of the church, and a group of girls noticed. They would come and speak to me, and over time, we became friends. These girls are now my best friends.
Creek Road was different because their approach was one of being welcoming and loving towards me. There was not a sense that I needed to be ‘fixed’ before I could come to church. They accepted me, and encouraged me to seek out God and find his will for me.
As I joined a growth group, and became part of Young Adults here at Creek Road, I slowly began to open up about my past. I felt more comfortable talking about my life with people I knew would not reject me.
I went to several Growth Groups before settling into an Adult Growth Group last year. Just recently, I shared my story with my Growth Group in the hope that it would encourage them to continue to treat people with love.
I am a Christian. I am no longer in the relationship with the girl, and she has visited church at Creek Road on several occasions. It is my hope and prayer that she will become a Christian. It is thanks to God’s redemptive power that my life has changed so radically.
Last Sunday’s bible talk was immensely encouraging for me to hear. Steve spoke about the sexual brokenness experienced by everyone, and he didn’t single out gay people as being the worst offenders. Instead, he made it clear that none of us are in a position to judge others.
I wanted to share my story today to encourage others who may be struggling with this issue to reach out to people they trust – maybe your growth group. I want to encourage people that this is not something you need to struggle with alone.
Recently I returned to my previous church where I had been rejected. They were happy to see that there had been some big changes in my life. I’m glad that my relationship with that church has now been restored.
The love and support of God’s people here at Creek Road has played a huge part in these changes occurring in my life. God has given me the strength to talk about this difficult subject in the hope that it might change other people’s lives, too.
I know I can safely say that if I had been treated with judgment and rejection at Creek Road, I would never have come back to church again.”
Praise God for how He has worked in this young woman’s life.
Please pray for her that she would grow in her understanding of God’s love for her.
Please pray for others who struggle with sexual brokenness.
Please pray for us as a church, that we would always be a community of love, grace and acceptance – introducing people to Jesus.
Welcome to Part 9 of our Got Questions? series. We are almost through the 10 part series. So far we have asked and answered some of Brisbane’s biggest and toughest questions. Only two big questions remain, check out Lucinda and see how when she had to think about “What’s all this got to do with me?
You can also check a 20 minute talk addressing this issue and all the other questions in the series by clicking here.
So yesterday, I’m hanging out on Mumble (VoIP) with some mates that I’ve met through an online game I play far too much of. They all know I’m in the Army and also studying to be a chaplain. ‘Gramps’ (her nickname) decides to ask me about ‘my view on religion’.
I figure this is my element and start to rattle off a few clichés like “I think it’s good to tolerate everyone’s religion, and therefore I expect people to tolerate mine” or “Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and I don’t expect everyone to agree with mine”. I did chirp in a doctrinal statement like “My personal beliefs are found in the Christian scriptures”.
And with that I was done. The conversation had moved on and someone was talking about their athiestic views (which were entirely valid and came from a well thought through position).
To be honest, I was pretty disappointed with myself. I had 2-3 minutes to talk about my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, and what I think about the world’s religions. What I did talk about was a wishy washy, all accepting, blasé, water-down version of how everyone should stop arguing and live in harmony. Man I sound like a Greeny.
I left the convo feeling that I had failed not only myself, Jesus’ message, but also my friends. They genuinely wanted my opinion, and for some reason, I hardly touched on what I really thought about Religion.
So here goes. Gramps, If I had my time again here is what I would say about Religion.
To start: what religion isn’t! It isn’t a CRUTCH. It grinds my gears when people say ‘You’re a Christian because it makes life easier’. Or, ‘You’re a bad person and therefore need religion to control your behaviour’. I can understand why people might think these things, but Christianity hasn’t made my life ‘easier’. I’m still a bad person (maybe not by the world’s standards) even after my religion is considered.
Religion isn’t a means to violence and war. People have undoubtedly used religion to fuel war, and there have without a doubt been wars based on religion. This doesn’t mean that the bible condones it.
Religion doesn’t give ignorant people the right to fight with educated people about things like science. There are undoubtedly things that where written 2000-4000 years ago that contradict a modern understanding of science. The bible wasn’t written as a scientific account of the world. [Edit: It does however tell the story of how humans can become part of God’s family. It is divinely inspired, 100% of the bible is accurate, non-contradictory and scripture always serves a particular purpose, which is often not what people use it for. ie. to justify persecuting the LGBT community.]
This is what the bible says about religion:
If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless. Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world. James 1:27.
I think the world sees a good religion as one that helps those around itself. Caring for the sick and needy. Helping the poor. A religious person is one who has a high moral regard, and cares deeply about how the present themselves to the world. They don’t talk trash, gossip, lie, steal, murder etc etc etc.
But that being said, it’s REALLY IMPORTANT to draw a line between Religion and God. Religion as the world experiences it doesn’t represent God. The local priest, trainee chaplain or crazy religious nut on Reddit.com fails to represent God in all His Glory. Some do a better job than others. But all fail at some point. So if your question is: ‘what is my opinion about religion?’ then my answer must be that “religion is trying to make a difference in the world based on a single persons, or groups ‘religious’ beliefs and values. This doesn’t have to be about a god or spirit or whatever, but I think it also includes people who hold so tightly to their beliefs that they make it ‘their religion’. ie. A animal activist that devotes their whole life to saving animals and would be willing to lay down their lives for that cause. That in my opinion is their religion. A soccer player who dedicates their whole life to being the best and will sacrifice friends, family and loved ones to achieve their sporting goals. That is their religion. I reckon some people have got their beliefs right, I reckon some have got their beliefs wrong, and 99% of everyone are somewhere in-between.
So why do I try and make a difference in the world through MY RELIGION. Because I’m called to be like Jesus. I and YOU and WE ALL are created to imitate Jesus. Yes, Jesus tolerated the other religions, but he didn’t accept their beliefs as truth. Yes, Jesus loved all the people around Himself, but He never let that love compromise who He was or what He stood for. He did this to the point of dying. He stood firm in His convictions. And this is I think the true message of Christianity, that Jesus died so that we can have a relationship with God. We should imitate Christ, in everything, including anything up to and including death.
Christ didn’t ‘do religion’ to be a good person, He didn’t do it for the money, cars, animals, women, fame or even for himself etc etc etc. He did it for God. His message and life was to show everyone else that life is all about God. For me, Religion is all about God. My opinion on religion is just this: its a means of glorifying God.
Maybe if your interested you could ask about my opinion on God and Christianity, the convo will be alot different and I’ll try and do you more justice in answering that one on Mumble. 🙂
3. “Now but not yet” – Is this the best unifying concept to sum up the life of God’s people in the present age?
This exam response will discuss whether the phrase “Now, but not yet” is the best concept to sum up the age in which Christian’s live in. As Christians there is no doubt there are expectations of the future and the full unveiling of the Kingdom of God is not yet completed. This response will show a) that through his life, death and resurrection Jesus established a Kingdom that is incomplete on Earth. It will discuss b) a biblical perspective of the future completion of the Kingdom of God and conclude that there is an overlap in the ages, which means Christians both live in the Kingdom of God and are waiting for the completion of that Kingdom in accordance with the scriptures.
Through the life of Jesus Christ we can see the inauguration of the Kingdom of God ‘now’. Jesus was the kingdom in person. He was the temple of God on Earth. (Jn 2:19-21) The kingdom that was promised in the Old Testament comes to actuality in the person of Jesus, but He didn’t stay on earth for long. Christ was raised in glory to be with the Father and continue his reign. Thus He sent the Holy Spirit while Christians wait for his return. The ascension of Jesus, and the sending of the Holy Spirit marks the overlap of the ages.
Christians are victorious now by being re-born in Christ’s victory on the Cross and also His resurrection. Christians have been raised with God in this age. God is working within us now, changing and conforming Christians into His image and likeness. Christians have access to the father now because Christ is reigning King today.
These present and earthly expressions of the kingdom are imperfect and incomplete. The human experience is defined with suffering (Rom 18:19), Christians continually displease God (Gal 5:17), Christians haven’t yet reached glory as God intends (Eph 4:15). There is a day where God’s future will be fully realised and perfected.
So then, Christians are compelled to think of the Kingdom also in terms of the ‘not yet’. It will be consummated on Christ’s return. Jesus will judge the living and the dead. At this point the kingdom reign and kingdom realm will become one. ‘Both-And’
The bible uses certain passages to describe what the Kingdom of God will look like in the future. There is a Old Testament theme of ‘prophecy and fulfilment’ as the scriptures are a linear historical progression. The theme is best described as ‘a movement from creation to new creation’. We find in the Old Testament a prophetic eschatology, as in Isaiah 2:4. This passage, along with others, is focused around the themes of God the King, the new temple of Jerusalem, a new people with a new heart of flesh, a new land and a perfect union with the King where obedience is also central. Prophetic eschatology is understood by looking back to the garden of Eden in order to show what the future Kingdom of God will look like.
The New Testament has a different eschatological approach but draws identical conclusions. Goldsworthy surmises the New Testament eschatology by saying that the emphasis of the kingdom is no longer on the temple, but on the person of Jesus. Wherever He is, the Kingdom is. Although the emphasis is switched, the theme of God as King is still present. Phrases such as Kingdom of God’s beloved Son, Kingdom of God, Kingdom of Glory, Kingdom of Christ, show that the Kingdom is described less with land and more with emphasis on Jesus.
Further to this in the gospels Jesus shows that the kingdom of is both near and hear. This is done through his miracles, reign over nature and demons and the forgiveness of sins.
In conclusion through both the New and Old Testaments Christians can visualize what the Kingdom of God will look like. From our human experiences of this world it is clear that the fullness of God’s Kingdom is not upon us. Although we have already experienced Christ’s saving grace and justifying forgiveness; and although we have the Holy Spirit as our present counsel, Christians still look forward to a time where the fullness and completion of God’s Kingdom will be a present reality.
 G. Goldsworthy, According to Plan, (InterVarsity Press, 2002) p.212
 G. Goldsworthy, Kingdom of God, p.620
 G. Goldsworthy, Kingdom of God, p.620
 G. Goldsworthy, Kingdom of God, p.620
 see also: Ezek 34, 11:19; Is 65; Jer 31; Joel 2:28-32
 G. Goldsworthy, According to Plan, p.213
 Col 1:13
 Col 4:11; Rom 14:17; 1Cor 4:20
 1Thes 2:12
 Eph 5:5; 2Pet 1:1; Rev 11:15
2.What happens to the individual person between death and the return of Christ, in the case of Christian believers?
This exam response will briefly discuss what happens to a Christian believer after they die for the period of time between their death and the return of Jesus Christ. It is beneficial to understand that in the beginning humans where created by God made up from a spirit and body which were tightly joined together. (Gen 2:7) Death was not in God’s plan for the perfect creation, and is directly a result of sin. (Gen 2:17; Rom 5:12) The death of a Christian believer results in a separation of the body and soul. (Ecc 12:7 & Luk 23:43). This time of separation is commonly referred to as the ‘intermediate state’.
From our earthly experience we can deduce that the body is destroyed after death. The question that remains is what happens to the human spirit. For the Christian believer, the bible’s emphasis of the state of the soul after death is always positive. There is no hint of suffering, evil, sin or persecution. (Rev 6:10 and 7:15ff).
While the scriptures don’t spell out in detail what the intermediate state will encompass, the focus is on the fact that Christian believers are going to be with Christ. The key term is ‘with the Lord’. (i.e. Phi 1:23)
Paul’s writings are often positive about the intermediate state and there is also a sense of incompleteness. The vibe is that there is still something incomplete. Despite this incompleteness the soul is undoubtedly in heaven, with God. (2Cor 5:1-10).
The bible doesn’t lead the Christian believer to expect a gap between earth and heaven. This would exclude the idea of purgatory of which the Roman Catholics petition.
The bible teaches that Christian believers are not conscience in the intermediate state, but does suggest that those who have died or ‘gone to sleep’ are in heaven with Christ. Christians are taught that Christ will bring them with Him when he returns for final judgement. (1Thes4:14). This raises the question of what ‘joys’ the Christians will experience. J.N. Darby fervently advocates immediate joy for the Christian after death. Darby is often criticised for his dispensational views, although this is the case he helpfully differentiates between the intermediate and eternal states of the Christian after death. He argues that the bible never talks about spirits or souls being glorified. He shows that the human soul is not fully glorified after death, but that glorification is saved for the final judgment and reuniting of body and spirit. Darby suggests that there is an immediate joy for the Christian after death. Others would interpret ‘gone to sleep’ as a death with a lack of conscience and therefore no human emotion.
To what end the human emotions are experienced is open for interpretation however we can conclude that after death, the Christian believer’s spirit is in heaven, with the Lord, waiting for Christ’s return and the final judgement where he and his body will be reunited and glorified for eternity. (Heb 12:23, . 2CO 5:1, Phil 1:23; Acts 3:21, Eph 4:10, John 5:21-30).
1. Outline the key differences between the classical Protestant understanding of “salvation” and the official Roman Catholic understanding. (i.e. the official position of the Vatican, rather than informal-level popular Roman Catholicism).
This response will quickly discuss the viewpoints of the Roman Catholic Church and the classical Protestant understanding of salvation. For the purposes of this response salvation will be referred to in terms God reuniting his people to himself through the forgiveness of sins and the giving of righteousness. This is achieved through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. This essay will discuss the view points on the human portion of responsibility in salvation.
The official Roman Catholic understanding is that the initial responsibility of salvation is God’s. He’s grace empowers man to respond to that grace. A man can respond and add to or detract from the work that God has done, not only for himself, but for his family and community thereafter.
The traditional reformed view commences the same as the Roman Catholic, in that salvation is a choice of God, not of man (Eph 2:5; 2Thess. 2:13; Tit 2:11). God chose before creation, with no regard to man’s actions or thoughts, who would and wouldn’t be saved. The reformed view differs as salvation is never regarded as a human right or achievement, (Rom 3:20; Eph 2:8-9; Titus 3:5) rather it was fully achieved by Jesus by shedding his blood on the cross (Mk 14:24; Rom 5:9).
Roman Catholicism believe that the response to God’s grace is displayed in Holy Sacraments. The sacraments are a sign of God’s grace. When faithfully celebrating the sacraments award the grace that they signify.
The Roman Catholic Church states that baptism is an essential part of salvation. Through baptism the grace of the Holy Spirit has the power to justify us. We should follow the example of our lord as he voluntarily submitted himself to baptism, which was intended for sinners in order to “fulfil all righteousness.”
Although the initial responsibility of salvation is God’s, when receiving the sacraments the outcome of the sacraments (God’s grace) will depend on the nature and character of the recipient. Further, the Roman Catholic church says that if one lives a sacramental life, it is the sacraments that unite the recipient in a divine union with Jesus as their Saviour. Therefore the Roman Catholic church insists that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation.
This view of sacramental response stands in contrast to the Reformed view, even where human responsibility is stressed in the response to salvation, the emphasis always falls back to the saving works of Jesus Christ. No amount of praying, baptising, repenting or performing charitable deeds will increase the effectiveness of God’s grace upon one’s soul. Unlike the Roman Catholic view baptism is not a means of salvation, but it is a sign pointing to the covenant grace of Jesus Christ.
Although The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that the pathway to eternal life is supernatural and depends entirely of God’s gratuitous initiative it clearly shows that justification establishes the mutual work of God’s grace and man’s actions. (1993). It says that grace is bound with the participation in the life of God (1997).
The most pivotal point in the salvation process for the reformed Christian is undoubtedly justification. The reformed view of salvation revolves heavily around God pardoning our sins and granting us an undeserved righteousness. The reformed view emphatically states that God does all the work in the salvation process from beginning to end. There is no contribution or mutual work involved. We are made right with God by His grace and it is the power is God’s mercy, not our works that fuels the process. (Titus 3:5-7)
The Roman Catholic idea of mutual salvation is highlighted by the fact that men are taught they can earn extra favour, (or lack thereof, that needs to be worked off by others), by either good or bad actions, not only for themselves, but also for their community. This is called ‘merit’. According to the Catholic church the graces needed for sanctification can be merited for ourselves and for others. We can merit extra grace and love for the attainment of eternal life.
For the reformed believer God does all the work in salvation in enabling men to have faith, and men are required to respond with repentance. Repentance is the changing of attitude towards God’s will with a behavioural change that follows. Any good action that a Christian performs for themselves or their community is deemed to be in response to the saving work already completed in their lives by Jesus Christ. The reformed view is that a Christian’s good works point other people to Jesus Christ, rather than earning extra merit for themselves or for others.
Another contrasting point between the two views is ‘why Christians are saved?’ For the Roman Catholic church the outcome of salvation is heaven. The catechism describes heaven as ‘the ultimate end and fulfilment of the deepest human longings, the state of supreme, definitive happiness.’ This is essentially saying that we should expect heaven to be a glorious magnification of the things we like on Earth. Christians after death are perfectly purified and live forever with Christ. They become like God and live eternally. They reign with Christ forever and ever and their job is to fulfil God’s will in relation to other men and to all creation.
As for the traditional reformed view the Westminster Shorter Catechism makes it clear that our purpose, on earth and in heaven, is to glorify God and enjoy Him. This is adequately proven with scriptures such as 1 Corinthians 10:31, Psalm 73:24-26 and John 17:22,24. The two views on why Christians are saved share the fact that salvation is eternal, and our job is to serve God. However the Roman Catholic view is man-centric and the reformed view is God-centric.
To surmise, the official Roman Catholic view of salvation is that through Jesus, God has done the initial work that is required to be saved unto eternal life, however this must be followed up by a response of sacraments and merit. The Catholic view becomes Jesus, plus works. Whereas the traditional reformed view shows that it is God’s predetermined grace that enables man to have faith. This faith is displayed to the world by obedience to God’s will with the intention of displaying his glory, both here, and when we die in heaven. The reformed view equates to a Jesus only salvation.
 M.J. Harris, Salvation, p.764
 Catechism of the Catholic Church – Libreria Editrice Vaticana, Citta del Vaticano 1993 (as found online: http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM) (para. 1127) Cf. Council of Trent (1547): DS 1605; DS 1606.
 Catechism of the Catholic Church (para.1987)
 Catechism of the Catholic Church (para.1224)
 Catechism of the Catholic Church (para.1128)
 Catechism of the Catholic Church (para.1129)
 Westminster Confession of Faith (1646) XXVIII.1
 Catechism of the Catholic Church (para.1998)
 Catechism of the Catholic Church (para.2006)
 Catechism of the Catholic Church (para.2010)
 Westminster Confession of Faith (1646) XIV.1
 M.J. Harris, Salvation, p.764
 Catechism of the Catholic Church (para.1024)
 Catechism of the Catholic Church (para.1023)
 Catechism of the Catholic Church (para.1029)